Then the Buddha, knowing what Soṇadaṇda was thinking, thought, “This brahmin Soṇadaṇḍa is worried by his own thoughts. Why don’t I ask him about his own teacher’s scriptural heritage of the three Vedas?”

So he said to Soṇadaṇḍa, “Brahmin, how many factors must a brahmin possess for the brahmins to describe him as a brahmin; and so that when he says ‘I am a brahmin’ he speaks rightly, without falling into falsehood?”

Then Soṇadaṇḍa thought, “The ascetic Gotama has asked me about exactly what I wanted, what I wished for, what I desired, what I yearned for; that is, my own scriptural heritage. I can definitely satisfy his mind with my answer.”

Then Soṇadaṇḍa straightened his back, looked around the assembly, and said to the Buddha, “Master Gotama, a brahmin must possess five factors for the brahmins to describe him as a brahmin; and so that when he says ‘I am a brahmin’ he speaks rightly, without falling into falsehood. What five? It’s when a brahmin is well born on both his mother’s and father’s side, of pure descent, irrefutable and impeccable in questions of ancestry back to the seventh paternal generation. He recites and remembers the hymns, and have mastered the three Vedas, together with their vocabularies, ritual, phonology and etymology, and the testament as fifth. He knows philology and grammar, and is well versed in cosmology and the marks of a great man. He is attractive, good-looking, lovely, of surpassing beauty. He is magnificent, splendid, remarkable to behold. He is ethical, mature in ethical conduct. He’s astute and clever, being the first or second to hold the sacrificial ladle. These are the five factors which a brahmin must possess for the brahmins to describe him as a brahmin; and so that when he says ‘I am a brahmin’ he speaks rightly, without falling into falsehood.”

“But brahmin, is it possible to set aside one of these five factors and still rightly describe someone as a brahmin?”

“It is possible, Master Gotama. We could leave appearance out of the five factors. For what does appearance matter? A brahmin must possess the remaining four factors for the brahmins to rightly describe him as a brahmin.”

“But brahmin, is it possible to set aside one of these four factors and still rightly describe someone as a brahmin?”

“It is possible, Master Gotama. We could leave the hymns out of the five factors. For what do the hymns matter? A brahmin must possess the remaining three factors for the brahmins to rightly describe him as a brahmin.”

“But brahmin, is it possible to set aside one of these three factors and still rightly describe someone as a brahmin?”

“It is possible, Master Gotama. We could leave birth out of the five factors. For what does birth matter? It’s when a brahmin is ethical, mature in ethical conduct; and he’s astute and clever, being the first or second to hold the sacrificial ladle. A brahmin must possess these two factors for the brahmins to rightly describe him as a brahmin.”

When he had spoken, those brahmins said to him, “Please don’t say that, Master Soṇadaṇda, please don’t say that! You’re just condemning appearance, the hymns, and birth! You’re totally going over to the ascetic Gotama’s doctrine!”

So the Buddha said to them, “Well, brahmins, if you think that Soṇadaṇḍa is uneducated, a poor speaker, witless, and not capable of having a dialogue with me about this, then leave him aside and you can have a dialogue with me. But if you think that he’s learned, a good speaker, astute, and capable of having a dialogue with me about this, then you should stand aside and let him have a dialogue with me.”

When he said this, Soṇadaṇḍa said to the Buddha, “Let it be, Master Gotama, be silent. I myself will respond to them in a legitimate manner.” Then he said to those brahmins, “Don’t say this, gentlemen, don’t say this: ‘You’re just condemning appearance, the hymns, and birth! You’re totally going over to the ascetic Gotama’s doctrine!’ I’m not condemning appearance, hymns, or birth.”

Now at that time Soṇadaṇḍa’s nephew, the student Aṅgaka was sitting in that assembly. Then Soṇadaṇḍa said to those brahmins, “Gentlemen, do you see my nephew, the student Aṅgaka?”

“Yes, sir.”

“Aṅgaka is attractive, good-looking, lovely, of surpassing beauty. He is magnificent, splendid, remarkable to behold. There’s no-one in this assembly so good-looking, apart from the ascetic Gotama. Aṅgaka recites and remembers the hymns, and have mastered the three Vedas, together with their vocabularies, ritual, phonology and etymology, and the testament as fifth. He knows philology and grammar, and is well versed in cosmology and the marks of a great man. And I am the one who teaches him the hymns. Aṅgaka is well born on both his mother’s and father’s side, of pure descent, irrefutable and impeccable in questions of ancestry back to the seventh paternal generation. And I know his mother and father. But if Aṅgaka were to kill living creatures, steal, commit adultery, lie, and drink alcohol, then what’s the use of his appearance, his hymns, or his birth? It’s when a brahmin is ethical, mature in ethical conduct; and he’s astute and clever, being the first or second to hold the sacrificial ladle. A brahmin must possess these two factors for the brahmins to rightly describe him as a brahmin.”